I was reflecting on something I said on the BioWare forums, recently, about skills-based character progression, which can create all manner of “hybrid” characters, versus the more common (and, let me be honest, more boring), concept of levelling a particular class of character in MMORPGs.
It occurs to me that there are people out there who can’t conceive of a system where people are given so much choice. “We’d always need to be rebalancing!” they cry. “Someone would find a combination of skills and become way more uber than the rest and then we’d all have to play that exact character build or perish!”
What these people fail to realise, however, is that not everyone plays these games to be the biggest and baddest… the best at PvP… the most powerful in raids. They play these games so they can be the character they want to be. And skills-based levelling takes that concept a step further, allowing people to level up whatever skills are available in the game… in any combination they like. If someone wants to roll some sort of nuker-healer, knowing that they’ll never be the best nuker and never be the best healer… let ‘em go for it. If someone wants to put all their skills into being a swordsman only… let ‘em go for it. And if people want to respec themselves every other week, chasing the elusive “best build”, they can do that, too.
I sincerely believe a lot of people, out there in the community, need to realise that not everyone plays these games to be “the best”. We want to be competitive, sure, but we never lose sight of being what we want to be and actually having fun doing it. As opposed to rolling characters we don’t enjoy playing and which only give us a 1% edge in PvP, or something, anyway. It’s just not worth the worry.
[...] of skills-based levelling? Posted in Games, Online by Rob on August 15th, 2008 Tossed some thoughts onto MMOCrunch about MMORPG players who get scared of skills-based levelling, thinking it will [...]
August 15th, 2008 at 12:27 amQuote
A good chunk of my reply to the BioWare thread was actually in response to this, which was showing in my reader, so I won’t copy/paste it here.
The skills-based games are coming back, and hopefully this time around the cycle will be well-done systems embedded into well-done, and FUN, games.
Here’s a question I’ve had in the back of my mind for awhile. The pro-class people always claim everyone will create the mythic “tank-mage” which can take damage and deal damage, thereby being self-sufficient. I certainly don’t remember that being the case in SWG. I seem to recall reading that it has been demonstrated, however, that people do tend to create their own idealized version of a “class” anyway, which is why simply giving them those classes to choose right away works more often than not.
Given that in every class-based game out there the LFG chat is full of “LF tank/healer” do you feel most people would still make some type of primarily dps-based characters? If so, we’re stuck in the same situation with respect to grouping and possibly feeling “forced” to play a character you don’t enjoy just to fit a role, whether it’s “the best” or not.
The alternative would be for the designers to not use the broken Trinity concept to begin with. This lends its own set of problems, though. Total dps is fine in shooters or action RPG’s. Something you get a quick fix and go about your day. Would not having a role actually lead to a shallower experience? If everyone’s just dps-ing away, holding down the fire button til you run out of ammo (or in HGL’s case, unlimited ammo!) I personally find my attention and interest waning rapidly. I’m so ready to leave the Trinity behind, and I’d rather see “LF two more players” instead of only looking for the two classes that the majority of players obviously don’t find enjoyable, but I’m not sure anyone’s thought of a good, workable solution yet that would apply to an MMORPG. RPG being the key part of the phrase within this particular concept.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:04 amQuote
I think it’s true, to some degree, that people would play their own versions of the established classes, however, I think there are two interesting elements to consider:
August 15th, 2008 at 1:20 am(i) Even if someone rolls what amounts to be “a tank”, it’s THEIR version of a tank. They will feel empowered and all, “I made this!” about the character. That’s actually a great way for people to really love and care about their character, ie: a good thing.
(ii) At the end of the day, people are still going to give their characters a tweak that sits outside the realm of where standard MMORPG classes will normally go. They might make a healer with “officer” (SWG) or “captain” (LotRO) style buffs… or it could be a healer with a rifleman (SWG) aspect… or it could be a healer who also does more conventional magic spells, too. Or, hey, it might just be a pure healer… imagine that! And that’s just four off the top of my head.
Because it’s unlikely that a game would have four healing classes along those lines, let alone what other variations one could come up with.
And, in terms of the near-mythical “tank-mage”, I think any skills-based system just has to be designed in a way that means if you combine two skills like that, you’ll only be half the tank that pure tanks are… and half the mage that pure mages are, ie: you still get to be a tank-mage, and it might be lost of fun… but you are far from uber.
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Pure skill systems are very prone to min-maxing. Think how horribly broken and exploitable GURPS would be as an MMO chracter development system for example. The reason that players bring up the mythical “tank/ mage/ healer” is that in games like UO and AC that is pretty much exactly what min-maxers create.
I don’t remember utterly broken builds like that being possible in SWG (though a doctor/ combat something was pretty badass), however that was a much more restrictive skill based system than UO and AC. It was really more like a “mix and match subclasses” system than a true open skill point system in my mind (at least when I played which was between CE and NGE).
I actually like the hybrid level / skill system that KoTOR uses. Class determines which skills you can raise easilly, but not which ones you can choose from. Class also determines the frequency with which you can purchase new feats, not which ones you have available. Going jedi opens new powerful feats, but also tends to hamper your skill development. The main problem with it is that the trade-off for going jedi isn’t strong enough to be at all compelling.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:47 amQuote
While its true that not everybody will min/max, enough people will to upset the balance, if it is possible. I think, that the more important point is that you still have to balance the classes in games like wow. That is never, nor will be completely possible.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:00 am.
Again, the problem really goes back to developers doing something different from the current standard.
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Come on, how hard is it to balance the classless guy who builds a mage tank? The more armor weight, the less powerful your spells. Done. How hard was that.
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Healer/mage too strong? Make healing and wizardry require different stats, so you could never max both. Done.
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Want to encourage people to do more than extremely specialize in one small thing and be overpowered? Dimishing returns with no cap. People can still get that character who has 50% chance to crit, but they gave up a lot of hp and defense to get it.
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Its not that hard, its just not the current trend. Developers dont want to try something ‘new and different.’
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Qix, I agree. As I said, “…I think any skills-based system just has to be designed in a way that means if you combine two skills like that, you’ll only be half the tank that pure tanks are… and half the mage that pure mages are, ie: you still get to be a tank-mage, and it might be lost of fun… but you are far from uber.”
August 15th, 2008 at 2:04 amQuote