Since the birth of the MMORPG genre millions of gamers have completed billions of quests that for the most part could have been completed by a five year old; and so quest grinding was born. The problem is that most quests offer no challenge to the player and for the most part are impossible to mess up. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we play video games because they’re challenging and fun? What’s the challenge or fun in killing 10 rats, collecting flowers or delivering a letter to your uncle?
As the title says, if I can’t die or at least fail at a quest, it shouldn’t be in the game. If you ask me that should be the golden rule for every MMORPG and should be posted in every developers office so they don’t forget it.
Why isn’t this a problem in single-player RPGs? Games like the Elder Scrolls series easily have 100 hours of gameplay, but when you compare the first 100 hours with a MMORPG, the difference is night and day. Single-player RPGs don’t insult their players by having them go collect shit for hours upon hours, instead their quests, for the most part, are challenging. You need to be careful where you go and who you attack because there’s a good chance that if you do something wrong you’ll get yourself killed.
Think back to all the MMORPGs you played, then think have far you were into the game before you first died. I guarantee it wasn’t before level 10. It’s almost impossible to die early on in a MMORPG, even if you aggro a monster many levels above you, all you need to do is run 10 feet away and he’ll leave you alone. Even at later levels, only a small percentage of quests can get you killed.
I don’t understand the argument for making MMORPGs easier. To me that just tells me you don’t want any sort of challenge, instead you just want to decorate your character and complete achievements. How’s that fun? In real life there called chores, why don’t you go do something productive then and write yourself a list of achievement to clean your house.
No other genre of gaming has anything like MMO games do in terms of easy content. Aside from perhaps the initial first mission or two in any shooter, RTS or action game, the rest is challenging all the way through. While I’m not saying there might not be easy levels here and there, you still have to have at least some competence to get through them or you’ll die or fail.
Of course MMORPGs need tons of content and we know no big publisher or developer will create a sandbox MMORPG, so until the industry changes, we’re stuck killing more rats.
MMO’s weren’t always this easy, but they were almost always 100% predictable once you learned the tricks and strategies. MMO’s have become so easy because they have started to attract the atention of the super-casual crowd. The same people who play farmville, etc. There are MANY MANY more of them than there are us that actually want a challenge (this is the gold mine that WoW noticed as each successively easier expansion came out). So games like WoW cater the level grind to that crowd. Then tack on some dungeons at the end (that are only slightly harder) and then larger raid’s that might actually be hard for a month until everyone can read the exact strategy on how to win (since all the fights are 100% predictable).
I don’t want MMO’s to be ‘I eat lions hard’ like Dark Souls. But some amount of unpredictability and difficulty would be nice once you get away from the starter area.
Im not much for losing EVERYTHING in PvP so I never played it, but Darkfall was supposed to have some amazing NPC AI. They would kite, train, etc.
Totally agree.
In the end, I think it’s all about the financial aspect. MMOs need their players to come back every day / week for as long as possible. Single players (especially in the past) are mostly about getting you to buy the game and not about what’s next.
This is why MMOs have a much easier starting experience… they want to make sure not to scare you or grief you away early on. After that, they don’t want or they’re afraid to step up the difficulty too much, so you usually don’t notice much difference until you reach the higher levels.
It might not be ok for some of us, but I’m sure their numbers tell them this is the more efficient approach.
I like that you clarified in the body of the text that it’s OK if a quest doesn’t kill you, as long as you can fail it. With this generation of MMOs, we have to accept that the quest can be repeated until success, but if there’s at least the initial chance of failure, that’s at least acceptable. There are some nice quests in EQ2 like that, where you have to sit and listen to NPCs give lore, then you have to give them the lore back. If you mess up the NPCs’ names, accomplishments, and so on, you fail and have to wait a while until you can try it again.
as much as I HATE PWE, and all it’s games, the PWI experience, of hitting a certain level, then you are prey for pvp, made the questing a bit of a game of hide and seek. Or farm with your eyes in the sky.
@buttlord
Agreed. That is why I always play PvP servers. Because the games are normally so easy that keeping an eye on PvP is the only thing giving it any difficulty.
I think I agree with Qix.
How do people enjoy a non challenging game?
Well because they are there to show off to the Jone’s and climb a social ladder and challenge just gets in the way of that. Many people want to get a bigger TV than the other guy and in game, want to get a bigger sword. It’s just not about challenge to them. Because they are, atleast when it comes to these things, shallow.
Side note: I think the explorer type player is another subject entirely and not what I’m talking about. They don’t want challenge either, but atleast they explore out of interest. I doubt they are a big demographic, though.
No, this is not the golden rule. The golden rule is “if a quest isn’t fun, it shouldn’t be in the game”.
Not everyone finds constant challenges fun. Certainly, certain signpost quests, or “heroic” quests should be challenging. But if every quest subscribed to your viewpoint, MMOs would not be very popular.
MMOs have moved on. You should too.
psvt, I like how you make fun turn out to just be what you find fun, in the end.
Not everyone finds non constant challenge fun.
What I want out of the game varies on when & how I want to play it on that particular day.
Weekends I have the time & focus to do challenging quests.
Weekdays I want to unwind from work, and am likely to just be frustrated and go do other things if I am forced to pay focused attention to the game.
Non-challenging quests allow me to improve my toon (a bit of xp, or some $$$ whatever) without having to stress about it. I also include things like farming materials for crafting etc in this.
Should all quests be one or the other? Of course not. Do they appeal to every player? Of course not.