If you ever talk to a non MMORPG gamer, you’ll most undoubtedly hear them call MMOs a timesink, a skillless game where it doesn’t really matter how good you are as how much time you spend playing it. Hell, you’ll hear some MMO players make this arguement from time to time. But does this arguement hold any water?
First thing everyone needs to agree on it that no matter what game you’re playing, the more time you spend on it the better you’ll get. This is true for every genre of gaming, even adventure games where you’re only really solving puzzles. The more puzzles you do the better you’ll be at solving them. Sort like the grandma that can rip up a 1001 jigsaw puzzle in 30 mins.
Now that we agree on that premiss we can move on to the argument that in the great majority of MMOs you’re simply clicking a button and watching your character fight. Yes, clicking a button does not take skill, but as any MMO player can tell you when you’re in a combat situation hitting those buttons at the right time and deciding between 20 different actions in a few seconds can be life or death. Someone who is very familiar with their character and all their moves is vastly superior to a player that isn’t, even if there 100% evenly matched. No different from a FPS, RTS or sport game.
Some argue that those that spend the most time playing will get all the best weapons and armor giving them an unfair advantage over players that cannot spend as much time playing, hence taking the skill out of the fight. Now this is true to a certain extent. If two players built their characters 100% the same and one player has much better gear, yes the fight does become unfair. But this is why we play these games, to get an unfair advantage over others them pummel them with it. If your playing football and the other team has a quaterback that’s much better than yours, are you going to sit there and whine about it. NO, you come up with a plan to get the advantage back in your favor. Same goes in this situation, if you’re getting your butt kicked by someone stronger than you, you come up with a different plan to beat them. Get a friend to come help, lure them to a area where friendly NPCs jump in to help, have more health potions in your inventory. If you want to play a fair game, maybe you shouldn’t be playing a MMORPG.
I won’t argue that their are elements in MMORPGs that do not take any skill. Having to travel across the map to deliver a basket of bread takes zero skill. Having to kill 10 bears that are around a camp takes zero skill. However this is not why we play these games. Being a PvP gamer I can say I play for the trill of killing the other player. I’m a big FPS gamer as well and I get the same type of feeling when I take someone out in a MMORPG as I do playing TF2 or CS.
But what about PvE? For me it depending on the game, if the vast majority of quests are boring and take no skill to complete, I won’t play the game or quit. However some of my best moments in MMOs have been doing PvE quests or raids. When you’re working together with a group of people doing a very challenging quest, the feeling of completing it is like taking your last final for the semester in college and knowing you aced it. Just a great feeling.
For me the perfect MMORPG would be one that cut out all the fat and keeps everything that makes these games exciting. A good PvP system with good, challenging quests and raids, no quest grinding. However it seems that I’m in the minority with my opinion as PvE is what seems to be driving MMO’s these days. Perhaps the social aspect of has outweighted the skill aspect of MMOs and we should be argueing that instead.
have you guys seen darkfall online or what?
Haven’t played it, but this is definitely one game I’m pretty excited about. Hopefully it’ll be good.
I don’t mind the grind too much, so land as I’m not doing it alone. Then I just stop playing. Ive enjoyed the hell out of WAR, but RL friends all but stopped playing (job, 360-fable, etc). Now, after changing classes, and servers, I’m stuck behind the wave of other players, trying to grind through the game since there are about 10 other people in T2 on my server. I never see anybody doing ANYTHING except scenerios. I’ve all but given up on WAR just because I can’t stand solo’ing in an MMO. I can’t even find a descent guild with members in T2.
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FOR ME, WoW killed the MMO genre. The solo’ing aspect of these games now turns the game into a souless storyless, unchanging world of an RPG. If i wanted to solo, I’d be playing Fable or Fallout, both of which I have and am now playing instead of WAR- causing me to be even more behind the power curve. I can totally understand why people pay for power-leveling. I don’t agree with it, but when the game is designed to make it SO annoying to grind and level, I don’t hate it anymore.
I completely agree with Qix, while i absolutely adore online games, when they become so one-sided that you’re forced to do the same thing over and over and over again with no change in your day to day routine, or when you’re forced to spend so much time in a game because your Guild is meeting for a raid or something, it becomes “souless storyless unchanging world” if i wanted to play something like that i wouldn’t be playing an MMORPG
At the same time, if PvP is the focus, why not just play CS or TF2? If the appeal of PvP in an MMO is the gankage or gear one-upmanship, that doesn’t speak well to skill, it speaks to the time commitment and grinding. Only an Arena-like setup with clean and balanced rules, is a sufficiently level playing field to make the “football” and skill argument valid.
Gear=time investment, and if that’s to be the determining factor (agreeing that practice time will make one better), there’s already a critical imbalance when it comes to skill. Going with the football analogy again, if gear is the key (thanks to time grinding rep or raiding), play between teams on, say, a battleground, will be akin to the Raiders freshmen playing my local high school team.
Regarding an MMO with heavy PvP, what of Guild Wars? Or more to the point, what of the now-defunct Fury? Fury was purely PvP. Guild Wars is both PvE and PvP, but it has a much different focus from WoW or WAR, as well as a different business model. GW catches some flak for not being a “true MMO”, whatever that means, but it has some of the best skill-testing PvP out there.
I’m all for leveraging the demand for good PvP. I’d rather it move to the CS or TF2 model where the matches are free to play, and skill is the deciding factor.
At the high end of the PVE game in WoW there definitely a lot of skill required to play one’s class in terms of maximizing DPS, healing, crowd control, etc. Eventually it ends up being an absurd persuit of stats and numbers which we see at the Elitist Jerks forums. The law of diminishing returns comes to mind…
Also let’s not forget that in a MMO there are other skills that are just as important to master: time management, information management, social management, financial management etc.
I do agree that for the most part WoW is a game that requires very little traditional skill from it’s players which speaks to it’s immense popularity. The solo game where you can go all the way to the level cap lacks any form of challenge whatsoever which is a shame.
As far as the time vs. skill argument, time is the great equalizer that enables lesser skilled people to compete with the new twitch FPS gamer generation. Still I think PVP is very flawed in WoW. I rarely participate in it and just loathe it.
Robert Sirlin authored a great essay on the time vs. skill issue in WoW for Gamasutra which is well worth checking out.
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060222/sirlin_01.shtml
P.S. I can’t seem to get spacing for my paragraphs
MMO players seem to always misunderstand the time vs skill issue other gamers have vs MMO. Yes, playing a game more will usually result in you becoming a better player. Each player has their own learning curve and natural abilities. In Counter-Strike two players can start playing the game at the same time. One may naturally excel at the game and learn it very quickly while the other just doesn’t have the same learning capacity and slowly progresses (or hits a wall and can no longer progress.) A player who has been playing a short time can surpass a veteran.
In most MMOs time trumps skill, every single time. Have two level 70s duel in WoW. Now the winner rerolls a level 1 character. How long until the winner is able to beat the loser again? The PvP in a majority of MMOs boils down to character vs character with the items and level of the characters dictating the chances to win before the play even starts.
In a fair game if two characters of the same class dueled it shouldn’t matter if they swapped characters and dueled again (allow any respec or customization they prefer.) That is most certainly not the case.
As mentioned Guild Wars is the example of this style of game where Skill trumps time. You have a minimum investment to gain access (or you can just buy fast access now) and have to spend no time leveling to do PvP. I can instantly roll any character I way and be ready to PvP on a level playing field. I can take someone brand new to the game and equip them to be fighting on a fair level with other players before they finish learning the basics of the game.
Your quarterback example is also terrible. The other team having a better quarterback is skill. An example closer to the reality of MMOs would be that for every year your football team has played you start with one more point. So if your team existed for 5 years and the other team existed for twenty the game would start 5-20.
The “MMOs take no skill” is exaggerated, but accurate. When time trumps skill to a large degree what does skill matter. Does it matter how good you are when you are on a level 1 character in WoW and watching 70s raid your race’s city?
I realize I’m entering this discussion a little late, but I just now came across it and felt the desire to comment… not because it’s a unique topic, but because those involved appear to be rather level-headed and respectful of differing views. Hence, I feel my own thoughts may be received in relative fairness.
First and foremost, we must define skill. Else, any arguments about its involvement are futile. From dictionary.com, let’s use the first definition: ‘the ability, coming from one’s knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well.’
Is there any skill involved in an MMO, according to the above definition?
In an MMO, communication generally plays a significant role. It is instrumental to finding and maintaining groups, guilds, and friends. Communication is certainly an ability. Furthermore, the effectiveness of communication depends upon an individual’s knowledge and aptitude. Someone knowledgeable about the game will be familiar with acronyms, other players’ viewpoints, locations, etc. A socially apt player may find and implement communicative methods of influencing and manipulating other players… so aptitude is involved as well. Therefore, communication is a skill a player may use and improve during the course of the game.
I propose that similar arguments can be made for the skills of navigation, strategy, tactics, organization, etc.
Now, the problem is that the many skills used are not often recognized or rewarded in a way that is immediately obvious to onlookers. I think this is where some people become frustrated and confused… they want credit for their evolving skills. The credit may be there, but they overlook it… it can come in the form of a compliment from a fellow player (‘Nice job healing… I really thought we were going to wipe!’), for example. Or the credit may not be there at all… but this should not prevent the player from recognizing his or her own improving skills.
So what I think most people are trying to say when they make the silly claim that ‘MMOs take no skill,’ is that ‘MMOs do not tangibly reward you for skill.’
Will PvP in an MMO be determined largely by skill or by time? Time, certainly… but that does NOT mean there is no skill involved in playing an MMO. It’s just not as obvious as in other genres.
“If your playing football and the other team has a quaterback that’s much better than yours, are you going to sit there and whine about it. ”
not accurate.
rephrase this argument to run like this:
“If you’re playing football and the other team actually has a quarterback, while you do not, and the other team has full protective gear, while you have none, are you going to whine about the constant injuries and inability to play properly?”
then you have a more valid analogy.
what you wrote is a skill argument, when you’re trying to claim that the argument about proper gearing is moot. I changed your analogy so its proper.
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