We’ve all done it, doing the same raid over and over again hoping to get that kick ass item everyone is desperately trying to get. My questions is not why we do it, that’s pretty simple, it’s because we want that damn item. The question is why are MMORPGs setup like this to begin with? The whole point of a quest, raid or big boss fight is the challenge of completing it. Finally completing a raid or killing a boss that’s challenging is a great feeling, but only seconds after victory you’re presented with a slap in the face as the item you were hoping to get wasn’t dropped or worse yet someone else got it. So what now? Well we all know what’s next, time to run it again and again and again until hopefully one day we’re lucky enough to finally get the item.
No matter what quest your doing, after running it a dozen or so times you can’t help but start hating it. And lets hope you’re not in a small guild and have to run it with a random group, cause you know there’s going to be one guy that f@cks it up wasting 2 hrs of your time.
What I’d like to see are raids that are meant to only be completed once. Once completed everyone in the group gets the item they wanted, preferably class specific. I think this would help put a stop to item farming, which you know you hate doing and puts more emphasis on the challenge of the game. I know when I complete a raid or big boss fight, even if I don’t get the item I was looking for, I don’t want to have to do it again. Why should I? I already beat it, there’s no replay value in fighting the same guy again. Sure if someone in my guild hasn’t completed it yet, I’ll help out, but aside from that I don’t want to have to do it again. I want to move on to the next challenge.
Consider a MMORPG where there are 12 (arbitrary number) raids. Each raid is extremely challenging and in order to get all your epic items you need to complete all 12 raids. Compare that to most MMORPGS today where you first find out which raids/areas drop the item you want, then run those 5-6 raids over and over again until you have all the items. I’d much rather have to do 12 where once I complete it I’m done and can move on, instead of doing the same 5-6, completing each one a dozen times hoping to get a favorable drop.
For me I’d like to see the repetative aspects of MMORPGs removed and concentrate more on the challenge of the game. The fact that item farming is such a big part of MMOs is one of the main reasons why I end up quiting a game once I reach the level cap. There’s only so much I can take and when that time comes I’d rather quit playing then have to do the same quest/raid again.
It is a formula that was first used in Everquest 1, a game which was notorious for being addictive. The reason why we will never be guaranteed the items we want after 1 run is because it is inefficient from a business perspective. The longer you try to reach that dangling carrot the longer your playing, and the more your paying. There is a lot more money in time sinks than in instant gratification.
“There’s only so much I can take and when that time comes I’d rather quit playing then have to do the same quest/raid again.”
Precisely. What business incentive is there for a developer to create something that a player will only see one time? You’ll get it all and then quit and move on. The current system might not be ideal, but why would a developer create something they intend for you to abandon? The goal is to make money and that means keeping players engaged somehow. If you can find a solution to that problem that doesn’t involve the grind, then write it up and pitch it to studio. I’m sure they’d love to find new ways to get the biggest bang for their development dollars and keep players interested.
I basically agree that content in MMO’s is in short supply. Content gets recycled and reused in many ways. Having raid instances being like packs of Magic the gathering cards or you have to keep going back over and over and over hoping for the particular card that you want is kind of a story breaker, but so much effort is put into creating these raids that it is inevitable that they would want to find a way to make people go back over and over.
What if they stop creating so much content that people want to burn through. You know how there are some quests that you enjoy so much that you don’t actually turn them in but failed intentionally so that you can do them over and over. Those types of game mechanics and those types of stories should be made more a part of the game from the beginning. Of course the more man-hours that are put into creating such quests, the more likelihood that someone will burn through that content on their way to being the next level – leaving the developer with the same problem he had before. So there is the constant fight between the developer who wants to create content that you enjoy, and the player who just wants to get to the next level as quickly as possible. One player’s brilliant, favorite quest is another player’s boring grindfest through hell – to be rushed through as quickly as possible.
In the end the solution might be to allow various avenues of advancement – not just experience points but also in gear and opportunities – and give people more chances to experience content from different angles. If creators can find new and interesting ways to showcase a particular piece of content without having to totally we create that content that would be a real innovation.
Nobody used to call it item farming before WoW came along. We used to say, “We killed the Avatar of War”. The entire point of raiding has been so devalued, that people just think of the raid mobs as item dispensers. All hail the casual gamer.
In response to Paragus, the formula was absolutely not from EQ1. The concept of playing in groups to kill mobs to get random loot in an RPG is ancient. The original D&D came out in 1974, and it wasn’t a new genre even then.
I’m not a raider… Have been, but for the reasons you cite; got very bored of it all.
I’m always intrigued why raid encounters are scripted rather than random. Wouldn’t that keep things fresh if boss mob X had a range of things he could do and would do them randomly. That way each run would be different and your raid force would take a lot longer to get something on ‘farm’ status.
I do agree though that once you have done the challenge once, there is little incentive to go back time and again just to get a specific piece of loot (at least for me).
every played diablo 2 ?
If you’d look at Raids as Levels of arcade games there are a lot of options to make them work, and even add the replay value. “Add value” not “make me do it again just to get any value at all”
Like – add accomplishments (did this raid in less than 1 hour), maybe with prizes
Did the raid without healers, without tanks, killed all bosses, did it with 30 people, with 20 people…
How would you like an arkanoid clone that “rolls a random number” at the end of the level and if it’s less than some preset value – makes you do the level again! Because you know – levels are in short supply and we only have 20 of them. And we’d like every customer to do these levels at least five times, why should we make a level that player only sees once?
High level MMO play is just a set of arcade game levels ;)
This behavior descends straight from the DikuMUD days (which in turn got its ideals from D&D), fighting your way through a zone to kill a boss that had the cool item once per reboot.
It is a method of enforcing rarity and keeping items special, and I was burnt out on it before EQ1 even appeared.
Why do games keep doing it? The same reason, maintaining item rarity. You have to get away from equipment driven games to get away from it.
Item Farming may be a neccassary evil from a business perspective – not only to keep players engaged but from a developers perspective too!
To add features in a game that constantly change is ‘doable’ but requires more programming and that means more $$$ spent and more time spent. Developing such games could get very expensive!
What is needed is some thinking that is totally outside the box from game developers.
Totally new game engine ideas with fresh new approaches that keep players engaged without being so repetative.
It is a challenge that hopefully many new game developers will rise to.
The strongest argument, I think, for a microtransaction based-MMO is the potential to free a designer from the built-in financial incentive to drag out content with tedious, repetitious grinding. As long as they’re running the monthly subscription scam, players will be expected to waste the time they buy running on treadmills.
Descent mob and boss AI would go a LONG way to making things less repetitive. Scripted boss battles is annoying.
Anything that is scripted should never be done repetitively.
…
If Darkfall’s beta comments are half true about the awesome mob AI, I will be in heaven. People were commenting saying that even low level goblin archers try to kite you. Work as a group to spread out and hit you at range while the one your not looking at swings at your back.
Pure win.
Time sinks. To make money. To keep you online.
The tunnel that never ends.
It’s that simple, nothing more.
Looking for any other explanation is pointless.
The only reason MMO’s require raiding/grinding.
The more time you’re online, the more money publishers get. That’s why they don’t want to think about alternatives to item farming, it brings them cash.